On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:09:07 -0700 (PDT), crisology
<crisology@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jul 25, 10:39 pm, Debs <YOURFOOTdebs02...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> in line:
>
>>>Deal with the root of the problem instead of the result.
>
>In rational emotive behavior therapy (REBT), you can attack the result/
>behavior (ie diet) and thoughts (self image), feelings (modified
>hormone activity), change in its train. It works either way. Start w/
>feelings for the source or start w/behavior to work backwards. For
>long term benefit, some work on the source/feelings (role play,
>flooding, desensitization, etc) may be necessary for some emotionally
>corrective experience to be maintained..
>
>> > a great number of
>> > people who are overweight are that way because they have been molested
>> > or abused.
>
>So an REBT approach would be to tackle the diet (behavior), then
>thoughts (self esteem), feelings (confidence, ) will also change as
>behavioral goals are achieved to provide the opportunity for self
>efficacy, modified metabolism, short circuiting serotonin, galanin
>activity related to overeating.
>>
A good sound approach to basically deal with anything a person
sees/views as a problem. However, there are also cultural inputs that
people receive to make them "think" they have an issue when they do
not. Currently "Thin is in". However, this was not always the case
as the paintings of Rubens show us once upon a time the ideal of
(especially feminine) beauty as regards to body mass was quite
different, and perhaps even more "natural".
>
>> Are you sure about this? Do you have any references? I am sure it
>> happens sometimes but most??
>
>It's high for females.
>"The causes of the current obesity epidemic are multifactorial and
>include genetic, environmental, and individual factors. One potential
>risk factor may be the experience of childhood sexual abuse. Childhood
>sexual abuse is remarkably common and is thought to affect up to one-
>third of women and one-eighth of men. A history of childhood sexual
>abuse is associated with numerous psychological sequelae including
>depression, anxiety, substance abuse, somatization, and eating
>disorders. Relatively few studies have examined the relationship
>between childhood sexual abuse and adult obesity. These studies
>suggest at least a modest relationship between the two."
>
It "maybe" high for females. Unfortunately all to many woman revert
to some childhood excuse for their adult behavior (although men to do
so as well). Even you clearly stated that the issue really hasn't
been studied and is more a hypothesis then anything else. Just
another part of our modern day society looking for a way to give us a
pass on our own bad behaviors.
>
>> >>Note that alcoholism is also a psychiatric disorder.
>>
>> > Like I said....attack the root, not the product. Why do people
>> > drink? Alcoholism is mostly genetic, passed on through family
>> > members, as is morbid obesity.
>
>Neither alcohol addiction nor obesity are genetically predetermined.
>Like seeds in a garden, these diseases are contingent upon how/if they
>are cultivated. The obesity epidemic is growing without genetic
>advantage (besides another excuse to buy a larger vehicle).
>"The U.S. obesity prevalence increased from 13 percent to 32 percent
>between the 1960s and 2004, according to researchers at the Johns
>Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Center for Human Nutrition"
>But The U.S. gene pool didn't increase selective pressure for obesity
>genes during that period and if the cause were genetic, we can't
>practically attack the gene pool as individuals. But we can change
>diet (a psychological issue that can be addressed w/education). This
>is a simplification but for example; a genetic predisposition for
>lower metabolism only guarantees those who are prone to gaining
>weight, require less food to maintain positive energy balance, not
>that they are required to be heavier or eat more than required.
>
While note predetermined, they are predispositions. It is extremely
difficult to over come your genetic makeup. The obesity epidemic is
growing for one reason & one reason alone -- modern society has made
us the Fat Lazy Animals of the Forest. We are no longer threatened by
any environmental factors, do not have to respond to the "Fight or
Flight" response (which causes other issues), and don't even have to
hunt for our food or live through periods limited food supply.
One but look at the socioeconomic makeup of the majority of Americans
that are clinically obese (different then being a little chubby) and
it is very easy for even a layman to make some observations on what is
going on in that area.
>
> Note I said mostly, not all. Why,
>> > then, do some show the signs and symptoms of the disorder while others
>> > don't? Maybe it has to do with how these people are treated in
>> > childhood.
>>
>> Alcoholism is mostly genetic, passed on through family
>> > members, as is morbid obesity.
>>
>> Again, are you sure? Positive it's not environment??
>>
>> I don't believe kids in middle school do drugs because of some deep
>> seated problem, mostly. It's just a time to experiment
>
>What animal naturally "experiments" using such self destructive ways?
>It is very unnatural but not uncommon to be drawn to such drugs. Just
>as the most common foods are most unnatural yet sought after more
>frequently (grilled steak, coke, etc)
>
Even though we are animals, or more to the point mammals, there are
any number of numerous activities & behaviors that we engage in that
one does not normally see in the Animal Kingdom. However, there are
certain members of the animal kingdom that are aware of what
substances in their native environment give them a buzz and engage in
ingesting them, they simply have no moral or religious qualms about
and are able to be true to their "Animal" nature. Unfortunately we
humans can no longer be true to our "Animal" nature as we are
"civilized" or would that be "domesticated" by our overall society and
supposedly are a nation of "Laws" (most of which are simply societies
way of controlling our animal nature). The easiest example of this I
can give is what Feral Cat Mommy piss tests their Kittens for getting
into the Catnip?
>
>
>> and it's just
>> occuring earlier and earlier. When I was in high school the vast
>> majority of the kids did drugs of some sort"
>
>And each of those kids knew it wasn't healthy to do those drugs before
>they "experimented."
>And every parent has access to information about carcinogenic food
>before they feed it to children.
>
No not really. Cigarettes are probably the number one "Gateway" drug
& drug of first experimentation for many. For those of my generation
the "Health Risks" were not really known or even promoted. As for
Marijuana there really just hasn't been the long-term studies done to
draw any really sustentative data one way or another on the subject
because the studies themselves aren't allowed. Alcohol is another
drug that many kids experiment with which actually in moderation has
some positive health attributes. It is when morality and religious
contexts are applied to a certain substance that it really gets
demonized, not its health risks. Indians used tobacco in moderation
for centuries before it was mass produced & genetically altered to
create addicts of its users that it became a major health problem.
>
>> > The guy who lived kitty corner to us was a convicted child molester.
>> > He did less than a year for molesting 3 kids. While out on probation,
>> > he started offending again and was only caught when he publicly
>> > molested a little girl at WalMart. Then he finally went to prison.
>> > Norm? Look on the Internet. There are kiddy porn sites all over the
>> > place.
>
>The victims can still not become obese by eating lettuce, figs,
>olives, kiwi, mango & dates. Regardless of whether the victims develop
>as obese or not, there needs to be the every day upside down
>(unnatural) standard diet options (just like SAD) available to the
>rest of the obese people who were not abused or genetically endowed w/
>lower metabolism too.
>
And one can still become obese eating all of those things in excess,
especially if they have an endomorph body type.
>
> > Alcohol is pushed along with sex all over the TV via
>
Throw in a little rock & roll and one has a perfect "Combo Meal".
>
>I saw the same commercials but "A new animal study suggests that a
>brain chemical (called galanin) increases the tendency to overeat and
>is also linked to increased alcohol consumption. According to this
>research, galanin produces a "positive feedback loop" that increases
>craving for food and alcohol. (December 20, 2004) –Addiction Science
>Research and Education Center (Alcohol facts)"
>
Again research who simply focus on animals really, really miss the
boat because they neglect to include all of the environmental factors
of humans into the equation, and the fact that the animals are studied
outside their normal habitat. For example the majority of American
domestic house pets are over-weight as well as their owners. One
major study showed that "Lab Researchers" caused cancer in Lab Rats.
Therefore if you are a Lab Rat it is a real good idea to keep away
from researchers as they are the leading cause of death.
>
>"study shows a high association among drinking, alcoholism, and child
>molestation. Forty-nine percent of the child molesters were drinking
>at the time of commission of the offense, and 34% were drinking
>heavily, defined as 10 or more beers or the equivalent." Annals of the
>New York Academy of Sciences, Vol 273, Issue 1 492-496, Copyright ©
>1976 by New York Academy of Sciences.
>
Because the use of mind-altering substances break-down the societal
taboos in humans allowing they to act out on their animal impulses.
Their is not "molestation" in the members of the animal kingdom
because their is no morality against it. Daddy cat/dog/pig will bang
their off-spring for no other reason then they are in heat. Animals
don't have "sex" they breed.
>
>> >>How about if those of you who favor this counseling pay for it. My health
>> >>insurance costs are already too high thank you!
>>
>> > How about making the molesters and abusers and neglectful parents pay
>> > for the counseling? They are the perpetuators of the problem, not the
>> > recipients.
>
>Most people with mental illnesses aren't candidates for counseling.
>The ones who are persuaded to engage in talk therapy are often doing
>it in conjunction w/meds. It's less taboo for people to self-medicate
>using moderate alcohol, functioning alcoholics, some pot, cigarettes &
>more commonly food addiction, which overlaps w/many of the other
>comorbidities.
>
No it isn't less "taboo" it is simply easier. One does not need to
make an appointment with their local bartender to deal with their
problems. It is very, very easy to find escape in the bottom of a
bottle. Many studies have shown that alcoholics are self-medicating
for Anxiety & Depression far before their medicating habits cause
other medical related problems.
Talk therapy was engaged in long before the field of psychiatry in the
form of talking with one's religious leader in order to have the
feelings of guilt lifted by a belief systems. Regular animals do not
need to talk things out or even have morality constricting their
behaviors. Left in the wild they do not become obese, but when
domesticated they certainly do.
>
>
>> > if you can legislate obesity, then you'd
>> > better legislate all the other things that happen as the result of
>> > people making selfish decisions that lead to the abuse of another.
>
>Hmm.. How do we outlaw addictive fatty food & parents from feeding
>children the same foods they know increase obesity, cancer risk, etc?
>
We don't, we all have "Free-Will" and should continue to engage in
those behaviors which are true to our nature or make us feel good
without concern with what other people may or may not think about
them. One of the greatest problems with our society is we attempt to
legislate everything which has now led to those who should have been
culled from the gene pool under Darwin's Theories not only surviving,
but breeding at an amazing rate when protected from themselves.
"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."
aka_velcro
ReaderRabbit
